Taylor Swift

Zane Lowe: Are you an emo kid? Taylor Swift: I was actually at the most emo dinner party the other night. 'Cause Brendan Uri and Sarah, his amazing wife, like, had me over.

I show up, and it's like Brendan and Pete Wentz sitting next to each other, and I just got to ask them every single question. Pete Wentz is probably, if I had to pick a favorite lyricist, it would be a tie between him and Lana Del Rey. Blank Space is a song that's just zingers, one after another, which I definitely learned from listening to Fall Out Boy.

Zane Lowe: Congratulations, first and foremost, on the success of Lover, because there's no guarantees even for someone as successful and talented as yourself. Every time you release music, you open it up to the, you know, to the universe, and you hope it's discovered. Taylor Swift: Yeah, and actually, an interesting dynamic happens between you and your previous work, and it happens as soon as you put out your second record.

Everything you do is a standing ovation on your first record, if you're having that breakthrough record. And then you put out your second body of work, and then you realize that everything you're putting out now is being compared to what they liked about your first record. But then you put out the third one.

Mm. And then it's compared to the first two. Mm-hmm. Then you put out the fourth one. Then it's compared to the first three, and it goes on and on.

By the time you're at album seven, you are so. You have such a strange, convoluted relationship with your previous work. Yeah. Because you're like, "Damn, All Too Well was a good song."

And I knew with this album it was, it was, it was, like, something that was almost a return to form. Like, Reputation was such an important record for me because I couldn't stop writing. Mm. And I and like, I needed to write that album, and I needed to put out that album, and I needed to not explain that album.

Mm. Because another thing about that album was I knew if I did an interview about it, none of it would be about music. Yeah. And this entire, like, Lover phase of my life, there's been no distraction from the music.

'Cause you're in a place where you're actually telling a very personal story or telling something so personal to you that someone else's opinion, be it brilliant or otherwise, is, could only, could only cloud that, really. Yeah, and I thankfully work with really wonderful, collaborators who, you know. Jack is amazing. Like, when I bring in a song that I've written 100%, some producers will not.

Like, nowadays, some producers will not produce something that they didn't have a co-write on. We really haven't figured out a way to compensate the creators. Mm. And that's something that I'm always gonna be very vocal about until I feel like it's fixed.

I definitely wanna, when I write a song 100%, I want credit for that, and I think that's fair. But I also, when people have these policies where they're like, "We won't do this without this," I understand why. But I love right now, you know, out there we have amazing creators like Halsey.

Mm. Like, Halsey's an amazing writer, and she speaks up for what she cares about, and she's very vocal about things, and we have these very fierce women out there. It's an amazing time. It's so good. Zane Lowe: We were just talking about the internet back there and some of our favorite moments.

You may walk away from that world, but you're able to tap in and use it whenever you want, and you do it very effectively. Are you into it, the internet? Taylor Swift: The only thing I really read every day is political news.

Mm. Oddly, there are actual inflections of how I feel politically on this record, more so than ever before. Like, you know, You Need To, You Need To Calm Down The man? Yeah, the man. There's a song called Miss Americana and the Heartbreak Prince.

See, I didn't pick up on that one. It's, it's definitely all about politics. You've got these songs that definitely welcome people into your world, and yet you're able to keep yourself distant from that scrutiny.

How do you do that? I think after a while you just realize that it's part of the job. Mm. You know, there's a lot of things that I tell myself when I'm kind of panicking, and one of the things that I tell myself is, like, "This is part of it.

This is normal." Zane Lowe: When was it hardest? When was it toughest for you? Taylor Swift: This has happened several times, so I'm, I can't.

Like, you know, when I was, like, 23 and people were just, like, kind of reducing me to, like, kind of making slideshows of, like, my dating life and putting people in there that I'd sat next to at a party once. Mm. And deciding that my songwriting was, like, a trick rather than a skill and a craft.

Kind of, it's, it's, it's a way to take a woman who's doing her job and succeeding at doing her job and making things, and it's, it's, in a way it's, it's figuring out how to completely minimize that skill by taking something that everyone, you know, in their darkest moments loves to do, which is to slut shame.

And so now when I see this happening, I can see a headline about a young artist, about a young female artist about, like, another breakup, and it makes. It it sends me into Zane Lowe: It takes you back there to a degree?

Taylor Swift: It sends me into a real sad place because I don't want that to keep happening, and I don't think people understand how easy it is to infer that someone who's a female artist or a female in our industry is somehow doing something wrong by wanting love, wanting money, wanting success. Women are not allowed to want those things the way that men are allowed to want them. Zane Lowe: Do you still have blindsides?

Do you still have things that catch you off guard, things that kind of surprise you that you're not prepared for? Taylor Swift: You know, every step of my career there's been, you know, people questioning whether I deserve to be there. So I feel like my whole career up until very recently was spent trying to prove myself to those people.

Mm. And trying to prove that I belong here, that I'm gonna work hard enough, that I'm gonna, I'm gonna make music that's good enough to belong here. And you know, I've had people standing up and saying, "You don't, you don't deserve to be here," either very loudly. In headlines- Yeah.

Or you know, comments or whatever. But you know, that's part of life. Zane Lowe: New adventures. Cats Yeah Taylor Swift: Yes.

I'm so happy I got to do this. I Zane Lowe: really wanted to work with Tom Hooper. I know that he records live, and he films and records your vocals live.

It's, it's such an interesting thing to me Mm. And I wanted to see him work. I'd actually, done screen tests for Les Mis Really?

When? Had met him through that process. Like, 2012. Really? Yeah. You went for it?

Yeah. I didn't get it. But it'Do people know that? Is that out there?

Taylor Swift: I mean, I think so. A little bit? But it's, it was such an amazing experience just doing the screen test. Mm-hmm. And I have.

I was obviously like, "I'm not gonna get this." And so basically, when I was approached this time, it was a straight-up offer, and then I started going in for rehearsals, and they have this behavioral, studies class called Cat School that I Zane Lowe: Okay, and that's where we pause. Mm-hmm. I need to just spend a little time in behavioral studies for cats.

Taylor Swift: So basically, you go in. You watch these videos of cats. You watch them walking.

You watch them sensing things. You learn facts about them anatomically, biologically. How do they sense things?

How do they. Like, what's their gaze like? What's their, what's their, like. It's amazing. Zane Lowe: Have you ever written a song from someone's point of view and played it to them, and it's been too close to the bone?

Taylor Swift: You know, I remember I wrote a song called Fifteen for my friend Abigail, who is still just my best friend, and you know, she's been. God, she's gone through a lot of, like, changes in my life and changes in her life, and we just still are like this. And she was my.

You know, sitting next to me in freshman year, and we became best friends, and a few years later, I wrote a song called Fifteen that was about, you know, not just my life and journey at that age but also hers. And I had to.

You know, that was a situation where I played it for her, and I was like, "This is just for you and it's never gonna see the light of day if you don't want it to." And she was like, "No, you need to put this out." Zane Lowe: What do you love most about your friends?

What is the one trait that you really look to? Taylor Swift: You know, I now, like, see resilience as, like, a major quality in friendship. Mm. Like, when your stock is down, if they're still wanting to hang Mm.

That's, like. And I know who those people are now. It's really fun to know that. Céline is one of those people.

Oh, she is. And by the time we start to put this out, there'll be music. It's just, I'm so proud of her. She's been through so much.

I've watched so much happen in her life. I'm 100% convinced this is the best thing she's done so far.