Deepika Padukone

Barkha Dutt: Well, hello everyone. When we as Indians imagine ourselves a certain way, how the world looks at us, I think we think of ourselves as this raucous, can-do democracy. And some of us may be shocked to discover that while we are all of that, we are also the most depressed country in the world.

I'm not sure how many of you actually knew that, 'cause when I discovered it was a real revelation to me, that 36% of us, as Indians, are or will be depressed at some point in our lives. Let me share another statistic before I introduce my guest this morning. 371 people at last count, 371 Indians kill themselves every day.

That was approximately more than 134,000 people kill themselves every year in India. And yet, the irony is that we continue to see depression and mental health issues as some sort of self-indulgence, as some sort of problem of the rich and famous, as not really where the priority of science and medicine should be.

Well, here we are in conversation with two people who are going to tell us why that needs to change, and that needs to change yesterday. First up, somebody who actually does not need an introduction. We know her from our cinema.

She's one of our most celebrated actors, but she's somebody I admire for a different reason, in addition to her star power and her talent. She decided to go public with a deeply personal and intimate story on her own struggle with depression, in fact, in a one-hour nationally televised interview with me, and then wanted to follow it up with concrete action, so actually created a foundation to help others who grapple with the same issues.

Deepika, once again, I must compliment you on your courage, because it does take courage, and it takes courage for somebody like you even more than all of us in this room, to talk about our struggles because you're a you're in the public gaze. There are 100 things that will be said, that have been said, including really low-level things like, "Oh, she's probably just doing this to promote her next film."

Right? And I know because I was in that conversation with you when you broke your silence on this on television, how difficult it was for you how painful, how raw when you talk about it, and therefore, I'm gonna say sorry, because I am going to, in a sense, put you through that moment again because there are people in this room who may not be familiar with your own story.

So let me start by asking you when did you know that you were depressed? When did you start calling it depressed? And why did you this fantastical woman on our screens, decide to go public with something so personal?

Deepika Padukone: I think it started with just a feeling. You know, just it started with just a feeling of not, of not being completely there, of feeling like, you know, like we spoke about, that pitish feeling in your stomach where, you know, and just breaking down for no reason. And truly just feeling completely lost and not understanding what was happening to me.

And I think it was the intervention of my mother, who was visiting me at that time, and I think I lived with it for a while, actually. I was, I was filming a movie at that time, and I had no idea what I was going through. And I'd go to work every day.

I'd literally have to pull myself out of bed and go to work. And my mother just happened to visit me, completely different context, and the day she was leaving, I remember breaking down and I was extremely surprised, actually, today when I think back at how aware she Mm. Of what I was going through.

And the first thing she did was to call, a family friend, an Anna Chandy, who's a counselor. But today, when I think back, and of course, I was hesitant at that point because I wasn't aware of what I was going through. I and at the same time, for me, Anna is someone who's also a family friend, so I think that's where I I sought comfort.

Mm. Mm. But at the same time, I don't know if I would have done the same thing if I didn't have, you know, sort of that comfort level. But it was my mother who really sort of identified the symptoms and immediately called her up, and in one phone conversation with Anna, she sort of understood what I was going through.

But at the same time, I think it's the way she dealt with me and with the situation at that point. She didn't raise any alarms. She made me feel like it was completely normal and okay and that we will get through this.

And then, of course, you know, with her and Dr. Shanbhag, who, you know, have worked on me, you know. I so I think initially I was also reluctant to take medication.

Mm. But I think at one point I was just extremely exhausted of I couldn't do it anymore, and I think that's when I decided to sort of, I said, "Okay, you know, let me, let me, let me start medication. Let me, let me accept this help that people are willing to give me." and you know, today there's a lot more awareness.

I don't, I don't think I can say that I'm completely over it But it's always a fear at the back of my mind that I might always have a relapse because it's been such a bad experience for me. Barkha Dutt: What was the most. I mean, I remember you telling me that you felt that pit in your stomach, you felt empty, you felt directionless.

Yeah. That you would lock yourself in your vanity van and sometimes just cry, and you did not know why you were crying. That sometimes it helped to have people around, but sometimes it was the exact opposite. You know, that sense of being closed in by a crowd when you're feeling isolated within yourself.

Deepika Padukone: Yeah. It helped having people I was close to and familiar with. It was comforting to have them around because then I could break down if I felt like, and if I had questions or thoughts in my head, I wouldn't hesitate to ask. But at the same time, if I was in front of the media or at an event, which happened many times, that's when I'd feel a bit, suffocated- Mm.

Because I didn't want to break down in public. And this is before I'd made up my mind to go public with, what I was dealing with. Today, if that happens to me, if I ever go back to that space, and I hope I don't, I don't think I'd think twice about exposing the way I feel.

And I think a large part of one's road to recovery is to accept what you're going through, and to not challenge it, but to embrace it. And to actually allow your body and your mind to go through that experience and know that there is, there is a road Mm. That will get you out of all of this.

And it's not an individual, I don't think I could have done it on my own. I think it's very important to have that support system.

So while, you know, people credit me, for coming out and speaking out, I think it's equally important for caregivers to acknowledge, and for us to acknowledge, that it's important for them to be with us on this journey. Barkha Dutt: Now, before I get Dr. Duraiswamy in, I want you to talk a little bit about the continued, the continued stigma, the continued stigma associated with mental health issues, with depression in particular.

Even today, if I were to be honest, in terms of eliciting responses here, even in this room with very educated, very aware people. In drawing rooms, you will hear loose and idle chatter saying, "Oh, why is Deepika depressed? She has everything. She has money, she has, she has fame, she has talent, she's going places.

She's. " You know. It's, it. Depression is treated as a indulgence. Like, you know, only people who have no real problems are depressed.

So when you came out in that conversation, and millions of people saw it online, on television, read about it, were you worried that the people were going to be horribly mean? And were some people horribly mean? Deepika Padukone: No. I don't think anyone was mean, but I didn't even think about it.

I didn't think about the repercussions. I think the idea... Barkha Dutt: You didn't have a moment of, "How will this impact my public image?" Deepika Padukone: No, not at all.

I think for me, the idea really was to just change the way people in India and in the world look at mental illness. And you know, give it the respect that it needs. You know, I think the idea really was to just change the conversation because I'd experienced, like, literally a pre and post.

And I lived with it for a couple of months without sharing it with anyone, and then today I feel so much lighter and so much better when I've, when I've come out and I've spoken about my journey. And I know a lot of other people who do. There's not a single day where I've probably not met someone who has come up to me and said, "Thank you for sharing the story."

But what's also helped them is the fact that they've then shared their story with someone, saying, "I know what Deepika's been through because I'm going through the exact same thing." And they instantly feel a lot lighter. Barkha Dutt: What was the toughest thing about that phase of your life?

Mm. Was it feeling like nobody's going to understand? Was it the sense of losing control? Was it the sense of, you know, surrendering almost?

Like, you almost have to surrender to it before you can get better. You can't fight it. A lot of people think it's mind over matter, but actually depression is matter of a kind, and I'm gonna talk to the doc about it in a second.

But what was the toughest thing about that phase of your life? Deepika Padukone: The phase itself. The phase itself. I think before the intervention, I think before I understood, before my mother saw it, before anyone else saw it.

To have to wake up every morning, to drag myself to work, to put on this face like everything's okay when deep down inside I had no reason why I was where I was and what I was doing. And life just it felt like there was no purpose. I didn't feel like.

It made absolutely no sense. Just life made no sense. So for me, I think that was the, that was the toughest part.

Barkha Dutt: Deepika, when you first started taking treatment, and I don't, And I'm saying even before the medication, did you find it really difficult to not outsmart your therapist? Because what a lot of, us who think of ourselves as reasonably intelligent, we say we know ourselves.

We know ourselves and you know, what are you going to tell me, some stranger sitting on a couch, that I don't already know about myself? Talk a little bit about that process. I mean, how difficult is it to walk into this room and start baring your soul to another person who, even if in your case was a family friend, there are still barriers.

And the thing about taking help for depression, it's a little bit like when we get a surgery. We don't care if our doctor sees us nude because we have to take our clothes off and get that anesthesia and get that treatment. So this is like baring your soul.

It is baring your soul to somebody, and it's tough. So talk a little bit about that process of getting help and the obstacles you had to jump over within yourself. Deepika Padukone: I think for me, there was the stigma before.

Barkha Dutt: Not once you started? Deepika Padukone: Yeah. But Barkha, once I made up my mind, once I decided that, you know, I'm, like I'm done, I can't, I can't live like this anymore, and you know, I want to get better, I need to get better, and then it was a deep dive. Mm. There's no halfway.

I don't know if there is, but it wasn't for me. So the day I decided to then seek help and speak about it and you know, speak to my parents, speak to my sister, speak to my doctors, then I'd share everything with them. So there was no Barkha Dutt: barriers, no holding back?

Deepika Padukone: No. Every question that they asked, everything they wanted to know, past, present, whatever they wanted to know, I shared everything with them. Barkha Dutt: Deepika, one of the things we didn't speak Mm. Is, you know, why did you decide to go public?

The foundation I'll come to, but you didn't confine to sharing your story to your your mother and father and your therapist. You actually took it out to the country, to the world, and that could not have been easy. And I remember one of the things you said was that, "If I can change even one life, this was worth it."

Deepika Padukone: Yeah. Barkha Dutt: But you must have wrestled with that choice at some point. Do I keep it within the home? Do I take it public?

And I bring it back to the fact that you live in the public gaze, which makes your going public with it a different narrative than from, you know, if she went public with it. So what made you say, "Not just am I gonna get better, I'm gonna tell this story to everybody who cares to listen to it?" Deepika Padukone: I think it was at multiple levels, Barkha.

I think one, like I said, after having been through what I did, if I could share my story, and if anyone in the world heard me and identified with what I went through and could come out of it or understand and you know, if I could make a difference to at least one life, I felt at that point I'd, you know, all of, you know, going public, speaking about it would be justified.

I also felt like the narrative around mental health in India needed to change. And I can do that today. The very reason why we're sitting here today, because I felt like when I hadn't, and like I said, I was also working at that point.

Mm-hmm. I was like, "Why can I not tell someone when someone asks me how am I doing?" Like the film that you just saw before we came in is. I think what got to me was when people were asking me, "How are you how are you doing?"

And one day I thought, are they really asking me how I'm doing? Do they actually have the time to Mm. If I said I'm not feeling okay?

Will they actually give me that moment and understand what I'm going through or. Barkha Dutt: Is it just perfunctorily? Deepika Padukone: Is it just superficial?

Yeah. When we ask people, how are you doing, is it just superficial? Is it just, you know, formality because that's the way we've been brought up? Like just Mm.

And "Yeah, I'm fine." "Oh, great. Everything's great." Is everything really okay?

And I wasn't okay. So I think that's what really got to me, because I wasn't okay, and it reached a state where I was like, why can't I just tell people that I'm not okay? Mm. It was just that.

And you know, and that's when I reached out, and that's when I felt like I needed to talk about it. I felt like, because I felt bottled, I felt caged, I felt like. I felt like I needed to fly or swim or just not be boxed, and to feel free, and I feel so free today.

Terrific. Fantastic. Thank you. Barkha Dutt: It is, you underplay, I think the courage that you have shown. You have shown extraordinary courage.

I've said that to you a million times. I will say it a million times more. Why the foundation? Deepika Padukone: Because I felt like just talking about it,

I wanna help people. I want them to understand what they are going through. We want to create awareness.

We want to tell people that it's, a, it's okay to feel the way you do if you're feeling a certain way. It's absolutely all right. So to create the awareness, to reduce the stigma, which is gonna take us many years.

Having said that, I think in just the last two years, I feel like the conversation has Barkha Dutt: Shifted. Deepika Padukone: Shifted. Is it going to happen soon? Maybe not. But have we are we moving in the right direction?

Most definitely. So to create the awareness, to reduce the stigma, to go into schools and colleges and educate teachers, educate students, educate parents that there is something like this that exists. It's there. It's happening. It's happening all around us.

And do something about it before it's too late. Suicide, depression is the next big epidemic to hit the world, if it isn't already. Yeah. And reach out to corporates, reach out to the corporate world.

Tell them that it's so important in your workplace to identify what you're going Mm. Because the pressures are so high, to identify the people that you work with, you know, to help them if you see sort of any symptoms. I think basically just to create the awareness, and hopefully one day, you know, we also want to be the happiest country in the world.

Mm-hmm. We don't want to be the most depressed. We don't want to be the country with the highest suicide rate in the world. Barkha Dutt: Look at your own life.

If you had gone to a film producer and said, "I can't do this film right now or because I'm depressed," what do you think would have the response would have been? Deepika Padukone: Maybe there are people who haven't offered me films because they think I'm depressed and I can't act. I don't know.

Barkha Dutt: You think that's happened? Deepika Padukone: I doubt it. Maybe. I don't know. Barkha Dutt: And did that make you ever regret going public?

Deepika Padukone: I'm in a, I'm in a good space because I can choose the movies. Barkha Dutt: No, I know. I want to do. I know. Deepika Padukone: But I don't think everyone has, you know, has that luxury of choosing. Yeah.

Where they want to work, when they want to work. So it's important for the organizations to understand that we need to treat this the same way as anything else. I think it's equally important to have, frequent sessions in your corporate offices about the importance of mental health.

I think it's important to have a tie-up with a counselor or maybe have an in-house counselor or a, or a, yeah, maybe not a psychiatrist, but it's, it's important to have an in-house counselor when, you know, your staff is burnt out, they need to talk, they want to speak to someone, somebody's there. Or at least make them aware that they should.

And I feel today it's important to just seek help of a counselor anyway, because our lives are so fast-paced with technology, with so much going on in the world. I don't think there's any harm in just seeing a counselor anyway Barkha Dutt: Did you continue to see a counselor even after you got better? Deepika Padukone: Yeah, on and off, on and off.

Barkha Dutt: Whenever you needed to. Deepika Padukone: I know a lot of my friends who've never experienced anxiety or depression, but it's very important for them to see a counselor, to see their counselor every now and then. A lot of people do, and we need to normalize that as well.

A lot of people say, "I have a meeting." You lie about it. "I'm in the middle of something.

I'll call you back." You know? Or you know, just lie and say, "I went to a general practitioner." Yeah. You know? We need to normalize it.

We it has to be as normal as anything else. Barkha Dutt: I think it is fair to say that Deepika's public accounting or chronicling of her own story, is not just brave, but it has a purpose to it.

Let's just say that the foundation, the telling of the story has a purpose, that the next time somebody says to you that they are depressed, please treat them with the respect that that sentiment, that that ailment, it is an ailment, and it is treatable to some degree, preventable to some degree like any other physical ailment.

And that would perhaps be the biggest service we can do to people like Deepika and Dr. Duraiswamy who work in this area. Let's have a round of applause for our guests today. Thank you very much.

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